Ford 1600 xflow HC - advanced timing?

[Big John]

Hi,
Please forgive me for joining your forum as I do not have a Lotus but I do have a Ford xflow engine fitted in a river boat. The engine does not run any more than 1500rpm, this is due to required low speeds to reduce the wash damage to the banks.

The problem I have is if I set the static timing to the recommended 6 degrees the engine starts every time - hot or cold, after the engine has warmed up I advance the timing by the distributor until the engine runs smoothly. It will run all day, stop and start with no problems.

Come the morning when it is cold the standard inertia starter motor has difficulty in turning the engine over due to the advanced ignition. If I disconnect the coil and run the engine over a couple of times, replace the coil connection the engine starts first time and will run again all day.

Obviously the advanced timing is causing the engine to fire and the starter cannot over come the pressure.

As I see it there are three options available to me.
1. put the timing back to 6 degrees. But the engine does run correctly
2. fit one of these stealth black boxes and map an advance curve to allow 6 degrees at start and then move to 18/20 for the tick over.
3. fit a reduction gear starter to over come the initial pressure of the engine firing.

I would appreciate any advice from your members.

[Martin L]

Hi,
Not that simple to give a solution without knowing the full spec. of this engine, is it a "marine" version of the xflow designed to run at low revs. or a "car" spec engine intended to run at higher speeds all day ? What distributor is fitted, you could have a problem with the inertia advance sticking.
What carburation ? running constant low revs under load will require very different fuelling to a car engine.
A reduction gear starter would probably overcome your initial problem but I suspect you have more than one issue here also you dont say if this is a recent problem or one that has always been present ??
In my experience with boats ,both xflow and pre xflow engines were usually fitted for performance where the free reving nature of these engines could be best used, usually as replacement for the old Volvo penta engine which was happiest plodding along all day at low speed !!

[Big John]

Hi Martin, thanks for response. The engine is a Watermota marinised engine, Sea Wolf/tiger and is a standard1600 ford cross flow, 711m block. It has a single ford carburettor and Motorcraft distributor. The engine is high compression with about 185 on all 4 cylinders. Fitted with non ballast coil and an Acuspark ignition rather than the old set of points.

The problem/symptom has been with me for years but I thought this year I would sort it out once and for all.

As I said if I leave the timing at 6-8 degrees the engine starts with out problems and will run all day but I know it is not running as smooth as it should, by advancing the timing she settles down to a nice rhythm. I would estimate it is advanced as far as 16/20 degrees but it is only the initial start when cold the starter motor is not able to overcome the pressure of the plug firing.

As it is on the river we are restricted to speed so the max rpm is 15k but we normally potter along at 10-12k rpm.

Thanks for your help.

[Martin L]

Sounds like distributor problem to me, check that a "car" distributor has not been fitted at some point as the vacuum and centrafugal advance will not work at the low revs you are using, from memory (going back 40+years since i worked on these things) you need a marineised distributor, some were fitted with a cable and lever mechanism to alter timing as you were running.
Good luck

[Big John]

Hi Martin,

I did consider the cable option but cannot find a suitable anchor point for the outer cover of the cable to be fixed to allow the distributor to moved on the run by the push/pull inner cable. That is why I was considering the Stealth gismo that allows you to make your own advance curve. http://www.accuspark.co.uk/Blackbox.htm It could be tailored to suit the short rpm range I use, I think?

Thanks for your input.

John

[Big John]

Hello, for those of you who my be interested I did purchase the Accuspark Stealth Blackbox. It was very easy to fit electrically and the only thing that was tricky was locking out the bob weights in side the distributor. Accuspark supplied the SS wire and it was a case of extracting the original springs and replacing with the wire.

The Blackbox has to be used with "electronic points". Accuspark can supply for any make of distributor.

The USB cable that was supplied was faulty and this caused the Blackbox not to load the drivers. Changed the USB cable and the whole setup sprung to life. The drivers loaded and the default settings.

The distributor has to set up to the initial timing.

Because I was fitting this to over come the high compression and the advanced timing beyond the initial 6degrees (starter could not turn over the engine) it was very easy to set the timing curve to suit my engine and after some trial and error I can now say it is a good "bit of kit" for my application. The engine can now start at the initial timing and once the revs go above 400 the Blackbox takes over and the engine runs very smooth and does not sound under stress. The other benefit is the dwell angle can also be adjusted. As my engine is fitted in a boat on the Thames the speed is restricted and the engine never goes above 1500rpm. Using the conventional distributor set up the coil would get quite hot running at such low revs. With the Blackbox the dwell can be adjusted simply by software and now the coil is cool.
I hope this info is of some use.
I am not connected in any way to Accuspark.

[Martin L]

[PaulT]

I hope this info is of some use.

Hi John, thanks for posting your results, this thread could prove useful to someone else in a similar situation looking for answers.